Category: Health and Wellness
This topic came up in the car as me and my landlady were driving home.
Do you think it's selfish to knowingly bring a child into the world if you know it will have a disability wich could cause it pain? and to add to that, is it selfish or abuse to not give that child the treatment it needs that would help it live a normal life to the full extent of it's abilities?
For my own part, if i were to have children, there's an 80% chance that that child would have glaucoma, and since i've had over 70 operations with my own glaucoma, and have also had to take many forms of pain medication to control the pain, I really couldn't sit there and watch my own child go through that. To me, it would be just plain selfish and border on abuse. what do you all think?
As for the second question, my landlady brought up the case of a deaf cupple who most deffinitly wanted a deaf child. They prevented their child from having a coclier implant in order to give it hearing. Is this taking disabled rights too far? Should that be considered child abuse?
To me it is, simply because if there's medical technology that can enhance a childs lifestyle, than it should be available to them.
what do you all think?
I think denying the child life jsut because it would have a disability is crule. And in reguard to the deaf couple i can kind of understand there posision
I think it depends on the disability. If it is really painful, like you said, I would not give birth either. But if it's ... "only" blind, like me, just because the nerves don't do what they are supposed to, ... I mean come on, we all have such a disability, so ... of course it's hard for the child, but we managed it as well. So, if it's not painful, then I can see no problem. When there's pain involved, that's another thing ... I would really have to think of that.
Jennie, i can understand their possition too, but i can also understand the little childs, whilst the hearing impairment shouldn't have an affect on how people treat the child, it's an opportunity that the parents are denying their child. As for denying life, it's not really denying life if you're not going to have the child, abortion is a whole other ball game and arguement i don't wanna get into. what i'm meerly saying, is, should a person make the sacrifice of not having children, if they're knowingly going to cause that child years of pain and torment?
Difficult question. Really. But really, impaired babies can be born also from healthy people. So I don't know ..
Tough call. My blindness is inherrited on my mother's side of the family. While I wouldn't wish a disability on my children, I'd love to raise a child who is blind. I've taken to mentoring young people who are blind. I volunteer at our school for the blind where I went o school, and find it rewarding. While I don't judge the couple who are hearing impaired, I don't understand their reluctance in a sense to have their child aquire the ability to hear. i think most parents, want their children to have it better than they do/did. I understand the fear of the potential loss of ability to communicate with one's children is understandable, however, in some ways, being a parent necessitates sacrifice on one's part.
Absolutely I have seen 2 children suffer terrible illness, pain, frustration and fear, due to ALD ect. It's selfish and cruel and the deaf parents are only thinking of themselves, how they can deny a child the right hear is beyond me, if the had severe cerebral palsy, would they want the child to be incontinent and wracked by spasms.
I think denying your children the ability to overcome or eliminate a disability at a young age is child abuse. Perhaps if it's later in life and they make the choice not to undergo the surgery etc it's a different ball game because it's their decission but when the chil id very young and has no adapted a certain type of life style or learnt to live with its disability there's every chance for improvement.
I think if you can be fairly certain your child has good chances of growing up healthy or with a disability no more severe than yours and you really want to have children there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, why do poor people e.g. have kids that will have difficulty going to the good schools, might have to work at a young age and might never progress to becoming rich and famous or even successful, why have a child when you're alcoholic and its time growing up will be confused and painful. I think there's no right or wrong, I think our responsibility is to ask ourselves what are the risks and weigh them against the kind of life you feel you can offer your children and, of course, just ask yourself if you want a child. If you think you can have a child that will be loved and protected and has a sufficiently good chance of a good life, even one with a slight disability, there's nothing stopping you from having one and I don't even think it's selfish.
Yeah, that's true.
I too would love to raise a blind child, but i wouldn't want to knowingly raise a child that was going to have to have major surgery all it's life, and to know i could have prevented that pain by not being selfish when i knew the risks...b, i agree with you 100%, and also with alex...didn't think this board would get off the ground...only wish the little annoying gitt on msn would stop sending me msn pluss sounds so i can post this properly!
Looking at this from another point of view the lad staying with us is deaf from birth, he was dumped is the word I'd use for being less than perfect. However, two of his familty are deaf, so why was he abandoned I think it's a case of what the family are prepared to put up with, maybe 1 more deaf child was too much. I did hear a disturbing prog on radio 4 last week, where families of very severely disabled children are at breaking point, due to a lack of respite care, many parents are driven to attempting suicide due to the strain of caring for a these children..and what about how the child would feel knowing their parents wanted them to be disabled, so they would fit in with the their twisted idea of what it means to fit in, I find it completely reprehensible.
I think it Is absolutely and totally selfish to knowingly have children if they are going to have a disability of any kind. I think that if there is only a chance that the child will be disabled, then dependent on the risk, and the disability, it can be a chance worth taking, but I think that if the chances of having a disabled child are 100% then the couple in question should not have children. Would you knowingly give your child an illness? Or do it physical harm? Of course you wouldn’t, by deliberately bringing a child into the world with a disability you are as good as doing those things to it. Yes some people with disabilities live very good and fulfilled lives, but let’s be honest here, few of us would actually choose to be disabled, so why would we choose it for our children. I’m not saying that those of us with disabilities aren’t happy with our lives, but there are certain limitations that come with disability, so why would we inflict those limitations on our children.
My son is 3 and a half and has perfect sight. If he’d been born with a visual impairment I would have dealt with it at the time and he wouldn’t have had any less of a life,but I would much prefer that he do the things that 3 year olds do, I’ve just picked him up from nursery and he rode home on his bike (which I dragged up there), he couldn’t have done that if he couldn’t see. Yesterday I had a conversation with his preschool teacher, and she told me he’s been doing all the letter/number sequences that the 4 year olds who are starting school in September have been doing, and he’s out-performed all of them. If he was blind he wouldn’t go to preschool, he would start school at age 5, and so the list goes on. If I have any more children they may be partially sighted, but the chance is only 50-50, so that’s a chance I’m prepared to take, but if they are I will do everything in my power to ensure their sight is improved as much as possible, but if they told me the chances were 100% I wouldn’t have any more children, no question.
and to the poster that said that by denying those children life it's selfish, that's not a valid argument to be honest. I chose not to have children until I was 28, thus for all those years when I took biirth control I would have denied life to so many potential children? nope, because they aren't children until they're conceived.
would also just like to add, I think that with certain disabilities/conditions such as muscular distrophy for instance, if there was any chance at all my children would inherit it then I wouldn't have children.
Definitely think it's wrong to bring a child into the world with a condition that will ultimately kill him/her
I guess it kind of depends. If I was already pregnant and found out then that my child would have a disability, even if it was a severe one, I would still have it, but if I already knew (before being pregnant) that it was something that was inheritable and that would cause the child to need too many surgeries and treatments, cause physical pain, or would eventually be fatal, I would have to think about that and might adopt instead. As for how I would treat the child, I guess that would depend also. For instance, if it were something minor that would make the child look different, but were not physically painful or life-threatening, I would not make them go thru surgery just because they looked different and I wanted them to look like everyone else. If the condition were something that could be fixed with medicine or a prosthesis especially if the condition would otherwise get worse without one, (say like any type of epilepsy or tumors or a condition that would require a special diet or medicine to keep it under control), I would of course want to treat my child for that. I would also want to encourage and help the child to live as normal a life as they could, thru technology and resources that are available, teaching them to do as much as they can independently and to communicate with others, and being there for them but also finding out about the living arangements that could/would be made for when they graduated and/or were ready to move out. I know a lot of this would seem unfair to many people, to put the child thru what could be a hard life, but I believe that God puts disabled children (or any child) here for a reason, even if they will only be here for a short time. I think most of the hard times a disabled child would have would be because of many people's attitudes and reactions toward the child and because of resources that could be but are not available for the child. And I know I might get several negative responses on parts of this post, but there is how I feel on this issue. *smile*
Those are very noble sentiments Lelani but so often it’s about far more than loving a baby no matter what the disability. Of course most people would love a child no matter what was wrong with it, but for children born with very severe disabilities the future is anything but bright, and the same goes for the families of those children. And sometimes it goes far deeper than having a child with a disability and bringing it up, some children with very severe disabilities require 24 hour care, and will do so for the rest of their lives. So when faced with the possibility of having a child that is so severely disabled that he/she will never lead an independent life, you have to think not only of the child, but of yourself/your family, and what that will do to you/them. And what of the future, one day you will no longer be there, and your severely disabled baby who is now 30/40/50 years old will still require round the clock care, how do you make provision for that? Is it really fair to knowingly bring a child into the world, and unwittingly place responsibility on your potentially still unborn children to look after that child for the rest of his/her life when you are no longer there?
Goblin, i totally agree with your last post, and to add to that, i remember the story about the deaf family quite clearly now, they were all interviewed on tv, and the little girl clearly stated that she wanted to hear all the things her friends did, she wanted to hear music and stuff, how cruel to deny her that!
I think if i had a child that had operable physical disabilities i wouldn't hesitate to let them have surgery to improve it, but not because i wanted a perfect looking child, but simply because it would mean they may have an easier time at school. I think life can be hard enough on some kids without having to deal with what other little kids can throw their way. I remember a young boy who had a huge brown birthmark on his eyebrow that his parents refused to have removed, the kids all called him black eye, and teased him constantly, now that's just not fare! If this could have been prevented, wich it could in this case, i think it's cruel not to do so and it's child abuse plain and simple.
If i had a blind child i think i'd want them to do all the normal things that sighted kids do, I'm so glad i went to preschool, the one thing that my parents did that i'm greatful for was that they tried to make me understand the sighted world. I never went to a school for the blind and am so glad of it, because i was exposed at a young age.
For me, if the chances are above 50% i just can't permit myself to be responsible for the possibility that that child may have a painful disability, and for me the chances are above 80%, so no children for me.
However, if i had a child, i would love them disabled or not, simply because i know what it's like to have parents who think you're imperfect, I mean, come on, how can a parent think their child is imperfect?
Loui I think in a lot of instances it’s not so much a case of parents finding their children imperfect, but that they are unable to deal with the fact that they have a child who has something wrong with it. How often do you hear a pregnant woman saying, when asked if she’d like a boy or a girl, “I don’t care what it is, just as long as it’s ok”. When a woman is pregnant she can have all manner of tests to check for certain chromosomal abnormalities, she has an anomaly scan at 12 and 20 weeks to make sure there isn’t anything wrong with the baby, and if a severe disability is detected then steps can be taken according to her wishes. But generally we don’t think of having a child with something wrong with it, because we aspire to having a healthy child. Actually I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that, I think we should all hope for the best for our children, and hoping for the best means that they are born healthy and without any disability. I think it’s one thing to say that we will love a baby despite its disability, and accept that baby and bring it up, but it’s totally another to say that we would like to have a disabled child, I actually think that’s sick and selfish.
Absolutely, when i said i'd like a blind child, really when i think about it really what i'd like is to have the experience of teaching blind children, and i don't have to have a blind child myself, nor would i wish to have a blind child over a perfectly healthy one.
I think the issue with my father was that he firstly wanted a boy, secondly it had to be perfect,...and...well...he was disappointed on both counts i guess...lol.
Maybe this deaf couple just couldn't afford to give her a cochlea implant or anything. These things are incredibly expensivee after all. also, some people, my mum for example, didn't know I would be born with a cleft lip and probably one of the world's finest cleft lip and palette cases, as I didn't just have a hole in the roof of my mouth, it went right back in to my airway, no top lip, an extra bone in my nose which shouldn't've been there, a fused middle ear, so I'm moderately deaf on my right side and have to wear a hearing aid, no right eyeball and worst of all, no sight. We didn't know what happened or how it happened. It just happened, like Alison Lapper's disability just happened in Child Of Our Time. She has no arms and shortened legs, meaning she's only 3 Ft 11 inches tall. I don't know what I'd do if my child were blind, partially sighted or disabled in any way, but my thinking is now, I'd just have to make the best of it and I'd do anything to get the money for their treatment for the various disabilities me, my partner or husband and our children may encounter in the years to come, because my mum saw me through 16 operations with hardly any hitches apart from when the stitches disolved too soon when I had the extra bone removed from my nose and the same thing happened 4 years later when I had tissue removed from my thigh to rebuild my top lip and that got infected. Me and my family would just weather the storm all over again if we had to.
While I can understand a parent's natural expectation of their baby being healthy, I
also know that anything can go wrong at anytime and so I guess I wouldn't feel that
shocked as in questioning why my child was born disabled. This isn't to say that I
wouldn't be sad (as any parent would) that my child might not be able to do things I'd
expect to happen with a nondisabled child or that I wouldn't be scared at first not
knowing how to handle things. But even now (before I think of having a child), I'm
thinking about what I might do if I had a disabled child because I know there could
be as much of a possibility that I will, just as there would be that I won't. Actually,
there is more a chance of a child being born without one, but I never know. Anyway,
I'm already learning all I can by reading, observing people, and paying attention to
what goes on with those that I know with disabilities (including an umcle I have that
has Down syndrome and is currently living with my grandparents). Although I know
this isn't the same as having my own child, I think in a way this would prepare me to
better know what to expect and what could be done if I did have a child with special
needs. Also, really in my opinion, I don't think anyone can know for sure 100
percent whether their child was going to be disabled anyway, even if there might be a
50 percent chance of it due to genetic reasons. I think that would be the closest
chance of saying whether or not the child would be disabled for before becoming
pregnant. Otherwise, yes, during pregnancy, someone might be able to find out and
know 100 percent that a child would be disabled thru prenatal testing. If I found out
while I was pregnant that my child was going to be born with a condition, since I
personally don't believe in abortion for that reason, I would not abort it so that would
mean that I would intentionally still be having it knowing it would be disabled. So the
way I see it (and of course this is just my opinion), it wouldn't be selfish because I
gave that child a chance to live. If the condition was painful or if the child was too
disabled to do literally anything, of course, I would want to do what I could to make
the child comfortable if that was all I could do for him/her. Also, if I didn't allow the
child to live, how would I ever know for sure what quality of life my child will have,
that his/her condition and/or abilities possibly may be able to improve or that they
might make a positive difference in someone else's life in some way? I'm sure we've
all heard of doctors who say "this child will never be able to do this or that", and the
child ends up living and/or grows up and is able to do something doctors said he or
she couldn't. For instance, my mother was in a lot of pain and was offered some pain
medication when she was about to have me. She was told that I would have
complications and that I was going to die anyway; she knew that I was going to be
premature, but didn't know exactly what would happen to me interms of what
disabilities I might have or anything until the doctor was telling her. But she didn't
allow him to follow thru with the medications and I'm here 23 years later. Although
this example might maybe not have to do with this topic exactly, I'm thinking the
same could be said of a child who was found to have a disability during a prenatal
checkup. So in that case, I feel like the child should still be given a chance to live
because I would never know ahead of time what that child's life would be like and
what he/she could/couldn't do and what could/couldn't be done to help and/or care for
him/her. In the case of future children, and knowing that I and/or my husband were
carrying a gene for a condition, I can't say that I definitely would or wouldn't still
have children; I honestly don't know. On caring for the children, I know there are
some conditions that may require the child to have 24-hour/lifelong care, and I would
do what I could to provide care for the child in that case. I do know that there are
options of places I could have the child stay at whether temporarily or for most of
the time if I needed a rest or could no longer care for the child myself and of course,
I would be saving money for that, and/or for any other issues that may come up
whether or not I had a disabled child. Also, although I wouldn't require or outright
expect my nondisabled child/children to spend their whole lives caring for the
disabled one if I died, I would hope that they would want to spend time with him/her
and include that person in their lives in at least some way. I wouldn't expect that
their lives should need to revolve around him/her to where they felt they couldn't
have their own lives at all, but since they are related to the disabled sibling, I would
hope that they would be willing to spend time with him/her at times (as I would want
them to do with one another), whether it's helping care for their disabled sibling
themselves if they choose to, taking their sibling out sometimes or visiting him/her att a group home/care facility they might be staying at if that becomes necessary for the disabled sibling to live there. Of course, I'm saying this having never had a child of my own, and I know having a disabled child would not make life easy for any family or the child with a disability, but to me, it would be more selfish me knowing that I never gave the child a chance to live at all. I know this saying is overused, but I honestly feel like God has a reason for giving a family the challenge of caring for (especially) a severely disabled child as well as for the child going thru life with that disability. Of course, many people would wonder why someone would even be willing to put themselves and their family thru that kind of stress and allow their child to be born if they will have a hard time in life or not even live a long life, but I guess I see it, (for the family) as a way to appreciate and help out another person, and (for the child) as giving him/her a chance to learn and use what skills he/she can and to make a difference in others' lives. To me, choosing not to have a child because it turned out he/she would or might be disabled would be like me assuming I already knew what my child's life (or lack of a normal one( would be like before he/she was even born, pretty much like the doctor did with my mom except that she was already going to be having me. Of course there are some things I could predict would happen, such as the child or family being made fun of or being rejected because of the disability, maybe a lack of resources for the disabled child, and family problems. But the being made fun of and rejection is more those other peoples' problem because either they have never met and don't know how to react to a disabled person, or they or that sad
that they have to put down others for whatever reasons, or they assume they know what the disabled person is/isn't interested in or can/can't do. In most cases, those people can and should be educated about people with disabilities anyway, and in the case of resources it's really a matter of learning about what is available and getting the money or having some already saved just in case anyway and in some cases if needed there are programs that can help out with paying for them. Of course there might be times that I'd have a hard time because of maybe weird policies or people who would give a hard time for whatever reasons, but even I've had and will probably have more times like that myself. As for family problems, as I'd mentioned, I know there are resources available when needed such as respite care, other relatives that I know would be there for me (and may be willing to care for the child for short times, although I know I can't automatically expect that),, and support groups. Also, I would encourage and hope that Everyone in the family would communicate with each other about things. So yeah, of course the first thing I would hope is that my child would not have a disability, but if I found out before birth that they would be disabled, I would not prevent him/her being born because of that. If it's a genetic thing, and, if, I got pregnant, it would not be because I specifically wanted or expected to have a disabled child, but since I wouldn't know for sure until the prenatal tests whether my child would either have or not have the disability or be a carrier, and since the testing takes place during pregnancy, again I wouldn't not want my child to live after finding out that he/she would have the disability. OK. Long post but I wanted to clarify and expand on my thoughts on this as well as answering SugarBaby's questions and comments on my last post. *smile*
I know of at least one case of this happen in australia, and in australia, you don't have to pay for these sorts of things, it's possible to get them on medicare. however, with the story of the american little girl, her parents had money, and plus there were chareties that would be willing to help...it was all outlined in this interview...it's just cruel!
gosh, this is a hard one. if i knew my child would have no chance of doing anything, like, talking, etc, or they were going to be in severe pain, i couldn't go through with it. i'd love to have a blind child, so i could teach them how to deal with what i have. it'd just help i think. the thought of having a sighted child fills me with dread at this moment in time, but as jenny says, her family and her have been through so much, same with me and mine, so i'd just deal with it if my child was sighted. but, if i knew it wasn't going to have a very good crack at the wip, i'd reconsider. I had a friend, who was both terminally ill and blind, and yet, she lived her life to the best she could. i asked her one night, aren't you afraid of what's going to come? and she said, do you mean death? she said, no, because it's going to happen to me anyways, just at a younger age than everyone else. she was so brave.
If my child was born with a disability, I would treat them as any other child in this world should be treated... with love, care, and respect. I would raise it to know that though their disability brings them challenges, if they believe in themselves enough, they can overcome anything they want. I wouldn't go to extremes like say putting a child who uses a wheelchair in tap dancing class, LOL! But I would make sure the child was mainstreamed in school and exposed to children of different ethnicities and cultural practices. I don't think it's selfish for a parent with a disability to raise a child with a disability unless they raise it exactly the same way they grew up, cruelty and abuse included.
If my child had a disability that was causing them constant pain, I'd help them learn to lead as normal a life as they can possibly have. As to the parents who didn't let their child have the opportunity to hear, shame upon them. Even kids who can hear have the mental capacity to learn how to communicate with their parents using sign language.
If there's something you, as a parent, can do through charity or whatever, to correct the child's disability, so they can have the chance to do what other kids can do, then I would go through with it.
I don't think it is selfish to raise the child with a disability if that is really what you want to do. Ultimately, if I did decide to have children I would want them to be sighted and what have you so that they could lead a better life, and not be made fun of and not have a difficult time because they are blind, but, if he or she did turn out blind I would do everything in my power to raise up that child and give it a good home and be an excellent mom. Addressing the other part of this question though, if I knew that I had the chance to make this child's life better, if I knew they could see due to some surgery, or in Loui's case, if they could hear, I would thank god for this opportunity for the child to live a "normal life". I do think it's selfish if you know full well that the child could be cured of the disability and you as a parent don't even remotely consider that cure for the child, just my thoughts on this matter.